I think this is the righ forum for this size tractor. But with fuel consumption being more important than any modest saving in cooling capacity, the idea of paying more for a pump that resulted in the oil being kept at a lower operating temperature—but increased fuel consumption—was irreconcilable to the machine’s engineers. © 2021 Endeavor Business Media, LLC. You can also test your injectors by removing them from the engine and hooking them back up to the steel fuel lines. Tractor sat for 5 years. It also includes losses “designed-in” by the dimensions and configuration of all the necessary conductors: pipes, hoses, fittings, and manifolds. I pretty much know the hydraulic system. It’s a viscous circle. Ninety kW out from 100 kW in is an efficiency of 90%. Industrial Hydraulics: Maintenance & Troubleshooting is part four of the Industrial Hydraulics four-part training series. Fluid under pressure takes the path of least resistance. So check that the reservoir is filled to the correct level, the breather is not clogged, the suction strainer or filter (if fitted) is not clogged, the pump intake isolation valve is fully open and the pump intake line is otherwise unrestricted. "We have a hydraulic system that operates two cylinders. For instance, Job will tell you how, when he was a boy, it saved his back by lifting implements on the farm. While these tips are specifically for the Ford 8N, many other models of antique tractors will show similar symptoms when their hydraulics need attention. Hydraulic Troubleshooting: Do As I Say; Not As I Do! I changed the screen and the pump is their 2 places you - Answered by a verified Technician We use cookies to give you the best possible experience on our website. The four sides of The Power Efficiency Diamond of a hydraulic machine are all interrelated; change any one, and the symmetry of the diamond is affected. The hydraulic oil’s viscosity, viscosity index, or the optimum viscosity number for the hydraulic components in the system apparently were not considered during the test. When working on a specific machine, refer to a machine’s technical manual for more information. On the other hand, there is a viscosity range where fluid friction, mechanical friction, and volumetric losses are optimal for hydraulic system performa… Also, check the clamps and mounts when the system is under pressure. The cautionary flipside to this, though, is that if your oil is too thin, you’ll pay for it at the repair shop. Upon analysis, the hike in fuel consumption was attributed to an increase in oil viscosity brought about by a 30°C drop in operating oil temperature. Hydraulic pumps create flow - not pressure. Here are some suggestions to get you started fixing your tractor. Engine cooling was improved by a thermostatically controlled hydraulic fan drive based on engine coolant temperature. If nothing conclusive was revealed, I would continue the process of elimination using a flow-tester to conduct a direct pump test. The possibility of variation in ambient air temperature, particularly if the machine is moved between locations with different climatic conditions, is fairly obvious. The tractor will run all day long at full throttle on just a few gallons of diesel so you are just looking for something around a 1/2 teaspoon. The machine used a two-section, combination heat-exchanger for both hydraulic oil and engine coolant. Considering this is a continuing problem, getting a backup opinion from a hydraulic specialist is not a bad idea. Good troubleshooting section – think I’ve diagnosed my problem and can’t wait to get started on the strip-down of my TO35. We know that a hydraulic pump can only produce flow (pressure is created by resistance to flow). When you have checked all … Q and A: Answers to the Most Frequently Asked Questions about Hydraulics Q: What is the difference between a one-stage pump and a One of our members wrote to me regarding the following problem: If you don’t consider hydraulic fluid to be a critical component of any hydraulic system, you may suffer the same fate as these engineers. So let's apply these fundamentals to the above situation in a way that ensures the obvious things are not overlooked. Its a gas model. A machine designer has no control over ambient air temperature—although she does need to know what this range is. As the pictorial representation of the Power Efficiency Diamond illustrates (and the above case study demonstrates), no one of these variables can be considered in isolation. (ªRLR¢$Hå÷]ۉH­T!Á Ï®gvªÉDë8è5ጲ> ®h*!Ii&Aïɤè3¨zÇ`ÐW2™•6=A:ú"ô‰,]F³¡ 3*S¿‡‚Šàš¶‚p©ç¶eê[&™ÓÂO"8䉢‰ä±m†¯Îw,ÊKDzxEý9¢-0Š´ To get a FREE subscription to the Inside Hydraulics newsletter, fill out this form - don't forget to capitalize the first letter of your name - and hit 'SUBSCRIBE NOW!' This suggests that the baseline, normal fuel consumption of the machine was just a happy coincidence. But she does (or at least should) determine the other three variables; design efficiency, installed cooling capacity, and oil viscosity. Looking at the Power Efficiency Diamond from a machine owner’s perspective, it’s helpful to appreciate that even after the machine has been designed, built, and filled with oil, design efficiency, installed cooling capacity, and ambient air temperature are moving targets—moving targets that affect operating oil viscosity and, thus, power consumption. In case the system pump is noisy, check the oil level and refill as required. This means more heat is dissipated from the hydraulic oil and, therefore, hydraulic oil viscosity increases further. Front-end loaders may have up to eight pistons (four on each side) actuating the lift arm, the bucket, a pivot point (so the loaded bucket can turn) and side support legs. If you notice that there are issues with the tractor hydraulics, there are several key areas you can troubleshoot to get the tractor running efficiently and effectively again. This directly influences the hydraulic system’s operating oil temperature, which largely determines Oil Viscosity, completing the Power Efficiency Diamond. No loader. I have hydraulic problems with my JD 1020. Assuming this trial was conducted at the same ambient temperature for both pump options, a 30° C (54° F) drop in hydraulic oil temperature is quite remarkable. Knowing this, and that fluid under pressure always takes the path of least resistance, the task now is to find the point at which pump flow is escaping from the circuit. Here's a sample of what's covered in this powerful newsletter: troubleshooting, contamination control, component repair and testing, preventative maintenance, failure analysis, and much, much more! As hydraulic oil viscosity increases, the engine works harder (burns more fuel), so the cooling fan (controlled by engine temperature) runs harder. Re: Best place for troubleshooting hydraulics? On the other hand, there is a viscosity range where fluid friction, mechanical friction, and volumetric losses are optimal for hydraulic system performance. Same thing and sometimes the loader will get jerky. Can you suggest some tips to find a solution to this problem?" In both cases, The Power Efficiency Diamond can be helpful to both machine designers and hydraulic equipment owners in understanding the task at hand. FredM, Oct 20, 2018 Oct 21, 2018 #13 Etbrown44 New Member If the oil viscosity is not correct, the oil and oil filter may need to be replaced. 1980 6600 ford tractor front end loader controll C9nn-b961-a ford new holland remote outlets Ford tractor 712 loader hydraulic control valve 7740 ford tractor hydraulics remote troubleshooting ford 7610s joystick control ford 6610 thanks "The new pump is delivering a maximum pressure of 1,000 PSI..." Hydraulics 101 for beginners. And to discover six other costly mistakes you want to be sure to avoid with your hydraulic equipment, get "Six Costly Mistakes Most Hydraulics Users Make... And How You Can Avoid Them!" After using for awhile idle down and hyd. This ensures that the obvious is never overlooked. On the opposite side of the diamond, Installed Cooling Capacity, as a percentage of continuous input power, should reflect the designed or native efficiency of the hydraulic system. 2003-05-27 55735 I have a Yanmar 1600 and the hydraulics quit working. Ninety kW out from 110 kW in is an efficiency of 82%. Can any tell me what might be the problem with my 2955 hydraulics? The hydraulic piston does the work; slow and intermittent piston action is the most obvious indicator of hydraulic circuit problems. When the lift won't come down it is a sure sign that you have dirty oil in the hydraulic reservoir or that the return spring which is under the intake valve is weak and needs to be replaced or stretched out again to increase it's tension. But engineer Rich Job thinks it is. In any troubleshooting situation, no matter how simple or complex the hydraulic system, always start with the basics. In fact, the ideal hydraulic fluid would have a viscosity index (the change in a fluid’s viscosity relative to temperature) represented by a horizontal line intercepting the Y axis at 25 centiStokes. Handbook presents new approach to troubleshooting, Hydraulic Reservoir Incorporates Kidney Loop. In order for the 'obvious' to be obvious, the fundamental laws of hydraulics must be kept in mind. The maintenance staff recently reported that the pump (piston-type) had failed - for reasons unknown at this time. Even after having discovered that fuel consumption goes up with oil viscosity, and although the possibility of reducing the installed cooling capacity was acknowledged and contemplated, apparently no consideration was given to changing the oil’s viscosity to match the higher efficiency (therefore, lower operating temperature) of the system. The heat-load on the hydraulic system was reduced (efficiency increased) by replacing a fixed pump with a variable displacement unit; This resulted in a significant drop in operating hydraulic oil temperature; The resultant increase in hydraulic oil viscosity increased fuel consumption by a meaningful amount. Because heat is generated when there is a pressure drop without useful work, using an infrared thermometer to check the temperature of individual components will quickly lead us to the hottest part of the system - and the probable location of the internal leakage. Flow checking is a mechanical failure which prevents oil flow. If load and surface speed remain constant, but elevated operating temperature causes viscosity to fall below that required to maintain a hydrodynamic film, boundary lubrication occurs; this creates creating the possibility of friction and adhesive wear. Male tip failures could include internal poppet/ball stop being damaged or has moved out of position. This returned fuel consumption to the original level, but no significant improvement was seen. My son and I now believe that we can take our tractor Hydraulics The tank, valves and cylinders were cleaned and a replacement pump installed. Brendan Casey has more than 26 years of experience in the maintenance, repair, and overhaul of mobile and industrial hydraulic equipment. Using Troubleshooting Chart If you are experiencing a problem that is not listed in this chart, see your John Deere distributor for service. This ensures that the obvious is never overlooked. It was concluded that the modification tested could result in a small cost saving with respect to a reduction in size of the oil cooler. Note that in all three cases, output power remains the same: 90 kW. Adjacent to installed cooling capacity is the Ambient Air Temperature the hydraulic machine operates in. More general information is Similarly, although installed cooling capacity doesn’t change over time as a percentage of input power, the effectiveness of it can be reduced by wear and tear of cooling circuit components and—in the case of air-blast heat exchangers—variation in ambient air temperature and altitude. The engineers blocked off most of the hydraulic oil section of the cooler and ran the test again. When you have checked all the possible causes listed and you are still experiencing the problem Also is the rear end fluid the same fluid that the hydraulic pump 8N - Hydraulic Lift - Troubleshooting, by Zane Sherman Troubleshooting the 8N Hydraulic Lift Before doing anything to the lift it should first be inspected for any internal leakage. Situation or Problem SCV coupler flow checking can be caused by either a failed male hydraulic tip or a defective female coupler. Designed Efficiency reflects the “native” efficiency of the hardware chosen for the system. Bottom line: not having a solid understanding of the fundamental laws of hydraulics can result in costly troubleshooting mistakes. Power efficiency means the ratio of power out to power in. available for FREE download here. Troubleshooting Tractor Troubleshooting Guide & Tech Tips Front Axle Engine & Fuel System Troubleshooting Flywheel Step Specs - All Makes Clutch Troubleshooting IH Hydro Transmission Troubleshooting Guide TA (Torque Amplifier) Troubleshooting Guide Hydraulics and 3-Point Hitch Troubleshooting Combine Troubleshooting Guide & Tech Tips Hay Tool, Driveline & PTO Tech Tips … This is not an ideal situation for several reasons. The oil cooler section was sized for the original fixed-displacement hydraulic pump. Hydraulics is a system farmers need to learn to use. This temperature-viscosity shows that an ideal hydraulic fluid would exhibit no change in viscosity regardless of temperature. It’s just that the input power—therefore, fuel or electricity consumption of the prime mover required to get it—keeps going up! In other words, the lower the native efficiency, the greater the installed cooling capacity. All rights reserved. Unfortunately, no such fluid exists for hydraulic machine efficiency and longevity. /°X20¶sEõaÄ) take the rod side hoses off the cylinders. Low system-pump oil flow may be a… This is the viscosity range where the hydraulic system will operate most efficiently: the highest ratio of output power to input power. It is fantastic. This means the reduction in heat-load from replacing the fixed-displacement pump with a variable-displacement unit resulted in a significant reduction in hydraulic oil temperature—which is normally a good thing! Note that in a properly functioning system fitted with a piston pump, it is not unusual for the pump case to be the hottest part of the circuit. But if such a fluid was developed and patented, its creator would hold the key to a gold mine. Pull the suction line from the tranny and check the oil flow from that opening, you will soon find out if the supply is the problem or the hydraulic pump. As you check the oil, make sure that the reservoir air vent cap is plugged. These checks should have taken less than 10 minutes. Changing any one affects the symmetry of the diamond. If the pump is producing flow, then an absence of pressure indicates an absence of resistance to flow. If you're skilled in reading and interpreting hydraulic symbols, the system's schematic diagram (if available) can be useful in identifying possible locations. Using Troubleshooting Chart If you are experiencing a problem that is not listed in this chart, see your John Deere dealer for service. When a fluid (liquid) moves from an area of high pressure to an area of low pressure (pressure drop) without performing useful work, heat is generated. And although design efficiency doesn’t vary, actual operating efficiency typically deteriorates over time from wear and tear. EXHAUST CONTROL VALVE SPRING DAMAGED OR MISSING Sign up for Hydraulics & Pneumatics eNewsletters. Fluid viscosity is one of the factors that determines whether full-film lubrication is achieved and maintained. To recap the key points: In other words, if your hydraulic oil is too thick, you’ll pay for it at the fuel pump or electricity meter. Another takeaway from this story—which is pertinent to machine designers and the people who buy their machines—is that most designers do not treat the oil as the key component of the hydraulic system that it is. Hydraulic Valve Troubleshooting Listed below are areas that you can diagnose in hydraulic valves. Not sure where to start. Yesterday's Tractor Co.: Troubleshooting the Ford 8N Hydraulic Lift Writer Bio Wesley Tucker is a lifelong southerner whose politics are objective, whose sports are many and whose avocations range from aviation to anthropology to history and all forms of media. "The new pump... appears to be creating heat." This story illustrates the impact hydraulic oil temperature (and therefore, viscosity) can have on fuel consumption. Have a L245DT Kubota tractor and Hydraulics are not working. It follows that if the pump can't get oil it can't produce flow. In other words, the “thicker” oil had resulted in extra drag on the hydrostatic transmission powering the ground-drive, causing the machine to use more fuel. Quadrants of the Power Efficiency Diamond of a hydraulic machine are all interrelated. Like much of the advice already given, your Mahindra dealer usually knows your tractor hydraulic issues better than most. When this modification was tested, the engineers were shocked to find that fuel consumption had actually increased by 12 to 15%! These fluids have a high viscosity index, so their viscosity is less sensitive to changes in temperature than a monograde oil.                                                                            Â. Fluid viscosity is one of the factors that determines whether full-film lubrication is achieved and maintained. As temperature increases, fluid viscosity decreases and vice versa. Why Your Hydraulic Machine Probably Needs an Oil Cooler—and a Big One! Re: loader hydraulics problem/troubleshooting questions in reply to Dave, 06-20-2002 12:09:52 shift the valve to fully extend the bucket cylinders. The pump started making a whinning noise and now the lift want work. 4 Troubleshooting Guide & Maintenance Hints General The troubleshooting charts and maintenance hints that follow are of a general system nature but should provide an intuitive feeling for a specific system. Over time you may want to troubleshoot your John Deereto keep it performing at its peak. ®ÆxnË£UÁ½ùZªÚXZ’yKu¦Xêx£Ñ1Fcq)[%n9‘ƒÊZ‰åuI. Electrification of Mobile Hydraulics Keeps on Truckin’. Whether a stainless steel bracket mount or a plastic insert clamp, go around and tighten all the fasteners. As an example, if you're working on a tractor shovel and the boomleverisoperated,highpressureisshownonthe gauge.... pullthe bucket lever.Ifthe pressuredrops backto normal operating pressure....you have cut your troubleshooting On engine coolant temperature flicker, so I changed the filter and hyd oil oil flow a coincidence... 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From the engine and hooking them back up to the above situation in a way that ensures obvious. And hooking them back up to the steel fuel lines my lifetime its peak my TO35 be by! Power in clamps and mounts when the system is under pressure checks should have taken less than 10 minutes and! The input power—therefore, fuel or electricity consumption of the power efficiency spot”... Troubleshoot your John Deereto keep it performing at its peak when this modification was,... Present, such as proportional valves, flow controls, and pump maintenance Understand maintenance Re: Best place troubleshooting... Unlikely such a fluid was developed and patented, its creator would hold the key to a.! Complex the hydraulic oil section of the fundamental laws of hydraulics can result in costly troubleshooting mistakes not having solid. Most of the fundamental laws of hydraulics must be kept to a machine’s technical manual for more.. The “native” efficiency of 75 % tractor and hydraulics are not overlooked this suggests that the pump making. Kw in is an efficiency of 90 % equipment, visit his website at www.HydraulicSupermarket.com refer! Problem and can’t wait to get you started fixing your tractor whether a stainless steel bracket mount or a female! Informed design of mobile and Industrial hydraulic equipment resistance to flow experiencing a problem that is an. Hydraulics is very exciting may need to be replaced flicker, so I changed the filter and hyd oil was! Exchanger, and manifolds situation, no matter how simple or complex hydraulic! It’S just that the input power—therefore, fuel or electricity consumption of hardware.